[Bill]

[chenks]

over using the reflection effect i think !

[ADR3988]

I was hoping they would do something like this soon. At least we know it's coming along.

I have to say though, it's actually quite ugly! But perhaps it looks much better when in use rather than just in static shots. (I'm just hoping some of the GUI effects are customizable... that is, removable!)

The photo/home control features are no use to me, so I'm hopefully there's a bit more DigiTV features in there if I'm to pay £30 for it!

[doveman]

I'm waiting to see if they've implemented a decent EPG. Kinda important in a Freeview program.

[BonkEye]

[plusman]

Does the home control use the X10 system?

[dannii]

Does this mean nebula hardware will finally work with Vista ?

[Bill]

[dannii]

I only see 3.7.10 on the downloads page ?

Here in the forums I now see 3.7.11 and 12, where do I down load from ?

Are all the Nvidia problems fixed ?

thanks

[Bill]

[tonys]

[Bill]

[8skellerns]

Add DVD playback, and 64 bit drivers for Vista, and I might be interested........

[RyFish]

[RICOUK]

After looking at the screenshots, all I can say is I am glad I moved onto Vista MCE. I will still try the beta of it on my secondary TV computer but I doubt it will become my main TV program, it just looks "childish" and bulky with too much going on on each screen, maybe that's just my GUI module at uni talking!!!!
Also second 8skellerns comment

[beardedwonder]

[blanchas]

I saw a preview at th Homebuilding and Renovation show and it indeed looked very good. Had a chat with the chap there and I was very encouraged by the v4 look and operation. I questioned him more on the new satellite receiver which apparently you can mix and match with the standard PCI / USB receivers. The software handles the channels discretely in the background. This could mean dozens more including channels including HD and you still have all the best from your standard reception.

sh*t hot if it works well. DVD playback etc would be nice but stuff like this is more important.

[m100]

Nebula mention that V3 is still going to be available but is V4 going to be supplied with new Nebula hardware or will they continue to supply V3?

[Bill]

[johny1fin]

It says Vista support but does not mension 64 bit.
As we have seen in posts that is vital for a lot of users.
I will have alook when beta coms out but my PC is XP 64 bit and Vista 64bit dual boot. If V4 works I will be able to dump XP at last.

The road map has said for a while support for DVD and home entertainment. Not much mension of these two.

I would be interested in support for X10 etc.

Perhaps Nebula should look at a reduced cost for those registered for a while as this forum has helped to develop the product over time by beta testing.

I know there has been a lot of moaning and this may have stopped rather than helped feedback to and from users.
Lets get this forum back on track and have more +ve communication with input from users and Nebula. Please?

[HyperReality]

[8skellerns]

I get a feeling that Nebula like other hardware companies are trying to move away from internal cards, and make everything USB for the people who are too scared to open up theyre PC. It is obvious that they are not interested in 64bit drivers for internal cards.

[chenks]

with small form factor media PCs being all the rage these days, the PCI card wouldn't even fit in them anyway. it may be advertised as low-profile, but without a low-profile back-plate, it isn't.

external USB devices is where it's at these days.

[cocobengal]

Looking at the functionality overviews of the Nebula Media servers and also based on the screen shots of v4, it would appear that DVD playback is not going to be supported yet.

I gues they felt it was more important for a 'total home entertainment suite' to be able to turn the lights on than play a DVD.

[Bill]

[8skellerns]

[chenks]

[amppat]

Any if V4 is going to support BDA drivers as a standard feature or would that still need to be purchased separately ? £27 with BDA support would sound a very good offer.

[paddym]

If V4 works as well as V3.7.x why on earth would I part with £27 ?
(Assuming the same programmer is involved.)

I have 2 PCI and 3 USB units in total, haven't I paid enough times
already for software that still does not do the basics reliably ?
(I naively expected a reliable version would eventually appear...)

My loyalty to Nebula is being rewarded with an upgrade charge !!!!
(Possibly 5 upgrade charges ???)

As for the future of 3.7.x = 'as bugs are fixed over time' .
Sounds more like a promise of 'when hell freezes over'.
Because.... if the bugs were fixed few of us would need to upgrade!
Try the following line in google for an explanation of the logic.
"elliot carver" bugs wikipedia

[Bill]

[pleasedelete]

I posted a while back on the subject of charging and am happy they are doing so if it takes the app forward, I also hope they support more file formats such as avi and flac.

[pleasedelete]

Another point, now they have a flashy new ui i hope they have also changed those rusty program icons they currently have, a new site design would also not hurt.

[wonkyd]

I agree with sleepyenglish, I don't mind paying for version 4 so long as Nebula continue to update and improve the program.

[infidelus]

As long as they've fixed the sync issues on playback, I'll be happy to try it (as long as they don't break something else in doing so).

It's been mentioned here before by a few people, and I (and I'm sure others) have contacted Nebula directly about it (not that I ever got a reply), yet it still persists. It's not even hard to reproduce. Play back recorded file ... watch it lose sync ... press pause ... press play ... repeat ad infinitum.

There's nothing wrong with the MPEG file. It plays back perfectly through my EVA700 (in fact it plays back perfectly in every bit of software I've tried ... apart from the bit of software that actually recorded it!!!), but if it holds sync for more than a minute on any of the 3 PCs I've tried over the last year then I'm genuinely shocked.

Anyway, enough rambling. Looking forward to trying the beta.

[Biscuit Tin]

infidelus

I agree about the synch issue - I am sure lots of people have it. I am on 3.7 and synch was not an issue a couple of versions back.

Not fixing it is an appalling way for Nebula to treat its customers.

I will try V4 but there is nothing in particular I want. I keep photos in Adobe Photoshop Elements and music in Windows Media Player. I do not have any curtains, only blinds. Will V4 simply make me £27 poorer ?

We shall see. Perhaps I will install an older version instead.

[StarDrifter]

So when is this released?

[beardedwonder]

At a guess, i suppose it could be when they get the new stock of hardware in. The new hardware is based on a different chip so maybe they need to do some testing with that before they release the software.

[pleasedelete]

I also hope they finally have a full screen epg, another thing i hope for is that its beta is actually released when they said(mid-late October) though i doubt it -

[Pixelz]

[beardedwonder]

I don't know, i was just told that the new USB units would ship with a new chipset. I think this is because the old ones aren't made anymore, but could be wrong.

[Brian_Damage]

"we look forward to releasing it later this month."

OK - So end of the month... I guess there must be a download link somewhere ? Can't seem to find it...

[wonkyd]

this is nebula we're talking about, "mid to late october 2007" which in your mind you should be adding at least a month to!

[StarDrifter]

Well it's now November - so I guess the predicted release is wrong

[BonkEye]

Once again - Nebula fail to "Keep the customer informed"

[8skellerns]

Nebula is a dead horse. I think Creative has better support for its products!

[rob_kae]

On the Beta v4 page here (http://www.nebula-electronics.com/news/v4/v4.asp) it says

The beta will be freely available for anyone to download and test, with bug-reports made via a special page on our website rather than by email.

Anyone got their hands on the beta copy yet? Seen a link anywhere? I've got Vista 64, and a lovely DigiTV card doing sweat FA

There must be a link to the Beta v4 somewhere (I live in hope, I know)

[Brian_Damage]

[quote="8skellerns"]Nebula is a dead horse. I think Creative has better support for its products![/quote]

Crikey - we really ARE in trouble if that's true !

[beardedwonder]

I was wondering if this would happen (loads of people *****ing about a late release). Not really that surprised, less than 24 hours after they said it would be planned to be released. Are you really all that surprised? Or just faking it because you have nothing better to do?

As i suggested earlier the delay could mean that they are waiting for the new units to arrive so they can make sure there are no problems with them.

[BonkEye]

[paddym]

[pleasedelete]

A new image of the music player is on the front page

[link]

Please pretty please support flac,

[link] [/url]

[beardedwonder]

Looks very nice

[dj]

[Nebula Development]

Ooooookay.... now is definitely the time to get a request like FLAC in.

While I did know of its existance, we were only planning on implementing the mainstream MP3 and MP4 (& possibly WMA) formats, but I'll definitely look into it. Is it worth setting up a new thread for comments, or can someone tell me that this is a really popular codec among users

[Nebula Development]

I'd just like to address paddy's comments directly as they deserve an answer. You should note that this in no way attempts to diminish any of them, its just by way of a fair and truthful explanation.

Nebula's reputation has been built over 5 years as really pioneering the first usuable Digital TV hardware/software combination and has relied on rapid bug fixing and new feature support to sustain it.

However, we are a very small family-run company with very limited resoures. A new development like v4 is absolutely necessary if we are to survive, but if resources are directed to this then they have to be removed from elsewhere. In our case, this has meant that only 2 new software releases have been made this year, and because the same people that do the development also do the support, this has suffered also.

If we didn't do this, the alternative is rather unpalatable and would mean that no-one ever got an update to their software ever again.

In recent times, the sheer number of (usually far-eastern) companies producing their own versions of digital TV hardware/software has exploded and this has naturally meant that we've suffered as a result.

While I don't ask that anyone should modify their opinion on Nebula, I do ask that you understand why we do what we do. This isn't about making a profit (we as a company never have, and its unlikely that we ever will), its all about staying around so that we can continue to make a difference in this market and in doing so, better serve our users.

I do hope that you understand and that the majority of you guys continue to support one of the few remaining UK companies that actually produce anything entirely on our shores in our efforts to better support you.

Peter

[Nebula Development]

Oh, by the way the licencing for v4: It will cover use for all tuners on the same machine for no additional cost

[dj]

OK, here's another item on my wishlist, but this time addressing Pictures.

Other than being able to display my pictures in a Slideshow (a rather basic requirement ), the only two other real requirements I have is :

1) for them to to be shown in order of file naming but using numbering such as :

Photo1
Photo2
...
Photo11
Photo12

and NOT needing to have them in alphbetic order such as :

Photo01
Photo02
xxx
Photo11
Photo12

2) For Captions to be shown from the EXIF data in the photo. I use Picassa to add comments/captions to my photos and I'd really like to be able to display them when the photo is in slideshow mode. There's no point in adding captions if you can't view them !

Just my 2c worth of requirements !

[Nebula Development]

OK, no need for the thread asking about how popular FLAC is. I've added support for encoding/decoding under CD Ripping/Playback for v4.

Thanks for the info.

[Nebula Development]

I'll look into this for you DJ, esp the use of metadata.

The exact format for the picture search interface is still to be finalised - the picture shown on the web page is just one basic version of a number of formats.

[Nebula Development]

btw, you might like to know that the playlist for v4 allows the inclusion of Picture files. This means that you can insert pictures after a music file and they'll cycle through and repeat until the music has finished playing, when it'll move onto the next music file/picture combination in the playlist.

You can of course save playlists with v4!

[beardedwonder]

Are there going to be any other other playable video formats in v4? Or just MPEG-2 and H.264?

[walaj]

[beardedwonder]

[murrayt]

Peter

Yes flac would be a useful addition but equally support for AAC at up to 256Kb/s would be an important addition. I'm not sure what licensing issues arise here but as an example my 700 or so CD collection is transcribed to AAC under iTunes. I imagine others have a similar tendency

[Liam]

Rather than trying to integrate all sorts of codecs and control mechanisms, it would be better to allow the software to use external codecs and be extensible.

[RyFish]

[wonkyd]

Vorbis support would be good too! 1/3 of my music is in vorbis (ogg).

MP3/MP4/WMA/OGG/FLAC all necessities in my case.

[Nebula Development]

I do agree with what you guys are saying up to a point. We put direct access codecs in with the source originally because we didn't want to have to specify that the user had to have a set of codecs already installed for the system to work. It meant that it all worked 'out of the box' which also helped us in that we didn't have to pay to distribute someone else's codec (eg PowerDVD for MPEG2 decoding).

This means that the way the system is set up currently is entirely built around this structure. Moving to DirectShow Codec access would give greater flexibilty in the short term, but it would mean a complete rip-up-and-re-write. It would also tie us into Microsoft's OS and make it much harder to port our software to other platforms such as linux or OS/X as had been mooted in the past.

For the time being and for the minimal gains and potential large delay that moving to a Microsoft-centric codec system would introduce, I think it may be best to consider codecs on an individual basis. I'm not ruling it out - just for the time being to expedite v4.

[amppat]

This discussion clearly shows that use of external codecs is the only way to satisfy all different needs for both audio and video. Why waste rare development resources for a area that is not the core.
I also hope Nebula would open up interface, good third party add-ins would increase the value of Nebula software.
Home Control feature in new v4 will be a good example. There are many very good automation softwares out. Pretty difficult to develop same functionality from scratch. All that is needed, is a possibility to send commands from Nebula UI-buttons or events to other applications and a way to add my own buttons to UI.

[Nebula Development]

Murray

Yes, mine too! I can confirm that AAC is supported by default (also, yes there is a licencing issue, but not one that we're passing on to the user).

[wonkyd]

Any chance of Vorbis (OGG)?

[infidelus]

As a non-codec related request, any chance of adding support for MCE remotes?

They do seem much more responsive than Nebs remotes (not that there's anything really wrong with the Neb remote either, I just liked the MCE remote when I tried it with some other software )

You never know if you don't ask

[beardedwonder]

Just thought of something else . Are there any plans for integrating Freeview Playback into this version of DigiTV? I don't think it's been fully rolled out yet but i think there's extra information carried in the EPG now that gives series and episode information.

[InterGalacticCheese]

Hi Neb Dev

My 2 cents are...

I'd say you'll happily get an endless list of requirements from this forum since (no offence) we're all similar nerds wanting that perfect AV system around the house but we all have a slightly different idea of 'perfect'. For me the prospect of having satellite tuner cards (with the new freesat service starting in the UK in the Spring) in the same box as terrestrial tuners all accessed seamlessly from a single nice looking GUI would be fabulous.

More importantly it's quite clear that there is a very keen & valuable resource of people on this forum that would happliy give up some of their time in order to support DigiTV. The process for doing this has already begun a long time ago with the bug reporting on this forum but none of us really know how much use this is to you? But we could go further than this if we could somehow work out a way to allow forum members (many of whom are programmers) to register with you to help resolve bugs by reviewing / accessing the source code. I'm sure some kind of model could be worked out for this although I'd have to admit to not knowing a way of doing it off the top of my head that protects your intellectual property. Perhaps you could offer a bounty for resolving a bug etc by way of free upgrades or licenses to H264...

Overall I think all of us would rather see you succeed than fail, there still doesn't appear to be another product that quite matches the specs of DigiTV although the competition has certainly caught up in the last few years. Perhaps the most realistic way forward to keep this 'Mini Cooper' of British Software Engineering alive is for all us to help out...

IGC

PS Erm, when is Version 4 due out?

[wonkyd]

[thirdprize]

I certainly like the look of the new software. My only concern is that most of the menus seem to be full screen now. I liked the fact you could browse the EPG or you recordings and still watch TV in the top right corner of the screen. Is there any sort of live picture while browsing?

[kram]

Just seconding what thirdprize said about the live picture while browsing, except sometimes I would like to be able to turn it off at the press of a button on the remote to view the guide full screen.

Mark.

[legin]

I've used a number of programmes purporting to support my hardware - various cards from various parts of the world - and I have to say DigiTV is the only system that has worked well and that the whole family can use. I look forward to V4 (OK its a bit later than expected; it's computer software. Even MS with all its resources can't release anything on time). So "good on yer" Nebula. I'll be buying a second tuner before Christmas.

[8skellerns]

Any more news on 64bit drivers?

[ero]

I now have a Sony 46X that has native 1080p. I resized my desktop to 1080p and now finding DigiTV to be extremely lagging when bringing up menus and CPU usage constantly at 100%. I am assuming the additional resolution is putting more strain.

Will V4 utilise DXVA or any other method to reduce CPU load?

[thirdprize]

I suppose my only other question is can you do everyting via the remote control? If they are going for the media centre functionality then I would hope so. By that I mean can you shuffle the channel order and can you add weekly timers for programs. I use my DigiTv int he loung and have to keep a KB next to the TV just in case I have to do either of these things. It would be nice if it was completely remote controlled.

[clv101]

Nice to see there’s a new version with decent Vista support – but what’s with all this other rubbish! Ripping CDs? Cataloguing music and pictures? Power-control! No need! What I want is a simple high quality bit of software for watching and recording TV. No more, no less.

To think that I’m being asked to pay £27 for what’s most likely a shoddy rip off of iTunes is sickening when all I want is decent software for using my TV card.

[g7pkf]

subject says it all.

[Bill]

[pleasedelete]

[StarDrifter]

[BonkEye]

[Brian_Damage]

OK - So Neb are now two to four weeks behind their original schedule.

Disappointing, but not a problem (and perhaps not unexpected by some) but would it be unreasonable to ask for, and expect, a revised date, now ?

[chorltan]

Anyone know if this version will still work in Windows 2000? One of the reasons I went with Nebula was that it was compatible with Win2K. I know it is a bit long in the tooth, but I had the licence, it is not connected to the Internet so I am less concerned with security, and it runs reasonably stably (of course I spoke too soon there, as it failed last night - I think the event log was full up). It is probably a long shot bearing in mind this release has been designed "to natively support Windows Vista, rather than being shoe-horned in".....

I am not inclined to shell out for XP/Vista on a machine dedicated as a PVR which has been running happily for a couple of years so I may miss the version 4 party

C

[StarDrifter]

If you're on an older OS there's no reason to waste money upgrading to this new version.

If I weren't on Vista I would stay on 3.2 - the most stable version IMO

But people on Vista have no choice put to put up with the unstable betas.

ATM the **ONLY** version that works for me is 3.7.11 (I have a NVIDIA card) ............ so naturally I'd like to have one that natively supports Vista.

However, I'm not so thrilled about paying for the new version with all the bells and whistles and the all-in-one solution that I don't need.

In fact 3.7.x should've had native Vista support within a few months of Vista's release at least - but it's almost a year since Vista's release and we've had just a few unstable betas so far.

So for those people on Vista the choice will be to fork out money for a version with native Vista support (and hope it is stable) even though you don't need an all-in-one solution ................. or continue to use the 3.7.x betas and ***HOPE*** that nebula will release a final version of 3.7.x that will be stable under Vista (and that's a bit hope!!!)

[prking]

I have to say I'm quite disappointed in Nebula, it would have been better to fix the bugs in the current software before going ahead with a new version. I will be displeased if I have to pay to get a bug-fix.

I would also like to comment on the lack of support from Nebula, I understand the support is free but to not even respond to emails at all is unforgiveable. I recommended DigiTV to a couple of people and one of them had severe problems, he has received no help at all from Nebula.

I understand that Nebula needs to develop new products to survive, but ignoring or alienating existing customers will not help the company.

[Gibbo752]

While it's frustrating that the latest version is late, I for one really do hope that they stick with their original plan for the MP3/DVD/etc support instead of messing around with HD problems that few of us will see for years.

After all it's why some of us bought it in the first place.

[beardedwonder]

[Gibbo752]

I'm looking forward to it happening too but really that's next year.

CD's & DVD's have been here a little while now and it would be nice if the button on my controller got just a little use.

Mine runs on my desktop too which kinda doubles as the second TV/Media player in the house.

Just a response really to those who apparently would rather it was dropped, felt a shame to read only one side.

[thirdprize]

I suppose Nebula is branching out into the proper media centre market, what with all the new hardware, and the old 3.7 didn't really cut the mustard any more. If you are flogging fully functional systems then you need a nice interface to make it look good.

I hope they have taken the opertunity to write version 4 from scratch, bearing in mind all the mistakes they made with 3. When you consider all the extra functionality they crammed into 3, hopefully 4 is designed with all that from the start. Sometimes it is just easier to start again then try to re-work something.

[BonkEye]

V4 is v3 in sheeps clothing. There's no reason to throw away "good code" when it still works (albeit Nebula never got into the habit of fixing bugs. With money riding on this version though they need sort their act out and the bugs that users report a) Visible for others to see and b) resolved quickly - otherwise it'll be another case o Showshifter

[Penny and Chris]

[quote="Gibbo752"]While it's frustrating that the latest version is late........ quote]

Absolutely. Website still says "we look forward to releasing it later this month. " on a page dated 1 October. It's now mid-November.

Surely it's the work of a couple of minutes to update the statement on the website.

I (like others) am still waiting for a programme and signed drivers that'll work properly with Vista 64. It's the only outstanding hardware / software problem I have with Vista. The OS has been available to consumers for over 9 months and Nebula still haven't resolved these issues.

[Nebula Development]

Thanks for all of your comments. It goes a long way to show that there are almost as many opinions, and assumptions as there are people to make them.

I'd like to answer your posts in necessarily cryptic fashion - nothing happens without reason - its just that not everyone knows them.

For the users that have said they don't want the features of v4 even before its released, the answer is simple - don't. Stick with v3. I've already posted about the bug fixes for v3 so there's no point going over it again.

As for v4 just being v3 with a different interface, I don't even know where to begin saying how much is wrong with that idea. If any of you know about DirectX coding, you'll know its a peice of cake and v4 would have been out months ago if it was a matter of swapping out the interface.

I don't expect my comments to be used as the basis for argument - merely for additional information where I can get valuable feedback as well. If people insist on deliberately using them for vilification, then I'll just stop posting and get on with my work.

I've said this before and I'm going to do it just one more time. Nebula Electronics is a very, very small company and to expect it to act as if it had the resources of Microsoft or Avermedia is plainly ridiculous. When taken into context, what has been achieved with DigiTV is nothing short of astounding and I'd rather see it continue.

If the few naysayers here continue to be very publically unsupportive, then there can only be one outcome, and it benefits no-one.

Peter

[rahewitt]

[8skellerns]

As rahewitt said above, but the one thing that really does bug me is the lack of 64 bit drivers for my PCI card. Is this ever going to happen? I really dont want to go and buy a competitors card, as I love Nebula's product and software, but the lack of drivers is stopping me from using it.